This week we welcome Colin Gray to the show. Colin was first guy I ever met who actually said the word podcast out loud in a conversation. He got me thinking about podcasting and for that some might think that's enough to lynch him. Colin has a fascinating story of testing, trying, succeeding and adapting over time to build a profitable multifaceted niche business with multiple diverse revenue streams.
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and every week I'm joined by small digital marketing business owners, creators, consultants and practitioners who share what makes their business work. Whether you run your own business, or you're just thinking of stepping out on your own for the first time, you're in the right place.
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This week, I'm speaking to Colin grey. Colin is one of the nicest guys I know. And he's also the person that first got me thinking about podcasting. You might think that's enough to Lynch him. hold off for a moment until you meet him. Colin has a great story behind his business and I'm thrilled to be able to peek behind the curtain of his business with you. So welcome along. Let's meet
So Colin grey from the podcast host, welcome to the show. Thanks so much for giving us your time. You want to maybe just start by telling us a little bit about who you are, where you are and what you do. Yeah, sure. Thanks for having me, Bob. So yeah, I'm Colin, I run our podcasting company. Essentially, we create our own network of podcasts. We've got our own set of live podcasts, everything from how to run a podcast, of course, to space exploration to mountain biking. So we are definitely a podcast making company. But really, the core of the businesses are in teaching people how to make a podcast. So we've done client work over the years where we've worked with businesses to create their own shows. And we also have a couple of other products, one of which is our coaching membership where where people can join up and get our courses and life coaching and all that kind of stuff, learn how to run a show. And then we've got our software as well, which is called altitude. And altitude is really just a platform that makes it really easy.
To create a show, so you just upload your raw audio and then we deal with the rest, you know, the music, making it sound good and publishing it, all that kind of stuff. So I've been running that for a while. 2011 technically, but really as a full time job since 2015. And these days, we've got a team of five or six people dependent on whether your current part timers and stuff. And yeah,
it's all interesting and fun and crazy. So yeah, happy to talk about it. I can't part timers. Yes. So I met you. I think it must be 2011, something like that in Dundee and a really boring networking event. Yes. And you were starting and talking about podcasts and I scratch my head and I thought podcast. How can you make a business in podcasts? Yeah.
We proved me wrong. So yeah,
I think meeting you that was probably the genesis of me thinking about podcasts and working. And yeah, not. It was it was a little bit like a dog with a bone but it couldn't quite find the angle, but I've been really impressed.
With the growth of your business, and I'm really glad to get some time to speak to you. You work, you work and you operate in the digital marketing space. I think it's fair to say I mean, podcasting is a real niche specialism. And I think I have a couple of areas that I really want to look at your product ties brilliantly, both with your own network of podcasts, the membership side of things, and the altitude product. But I think when I met you back a long time ago, I can't remember exactly when it was your focus then was more on helping businesses establish their own podcast is that right? Yeah, yes, absolutely. I mean, it's a funny it's a funny one nicely goes way back to the company first emitters first Penny, I have affiliate income. So that's where it really started. I was working at University at the time, and the I was just writing reviews of equipment and mixers and microphone.
phones and all that kind of stuff. And really to corn to corner, Amazon as an affiliate partner start putting Amazon links into the website. And that's where it started to make some money. But really the time you're talking about is, as soon as I went full time really the the Amazon income grew to a point where I just got really interested in all thing and decided just to take the risk and jump into it. And the first year or so, was really trying to make myself more what I thought was a legitimate business, I suppose I still thought of Amazon affiliate income or that kind of income as being quite unreliable. It's been a little bit
you know, it's not a proper business. It's just like, it's just making a bit of money on the internet. So for some reason, I convinced myself that the only way for us to make a proper legitimate podcast company was to take on clients and work with people to create shows. So you're absolutely right at that point. I was trying to find as many companies as I could to take on as regular production clients so we produce their shoulders
We can we can, yeah. And is that production side of things, something that you've lived away from in terms of doing it for other people? It is. Yeah, I mean, we still do do it. But we do not do it the way we used to. So back then it was all about it was about volume and regularity. Really, the kind of the classic way to become our Podcast Producer was to get people who are producing shows we can, we can't let yourself let you do Bob, like, you see, they send you the recording, and every single week you get out for them. And it's pretty low, pretty high competition, relatively low quality, kind of churning out.
Little problems can cause all sorts of big problems. And so the we've got rid of that kind of work. And these days, we concentrate on the kind of really high end high production stuff. So we still work with. So for example, a show we did recently was with the converge challenge, who are funding competition for entrepreneurs. And we created a series of four episodes, only four episodes, one season, where I interviewed four people and we spend
Probably two to three weeks full time working on actually bringing it all together creating a narrative, narrating it all, putting in music every all through to create tension, drama, all that kind of stuff is really, you know, creating that kind of high end almost dramatic style documentary style short. So that's that's really the only co production we do these days. That sounds like a lot of fun. I mean, I love doing the podcast. But that sounds like so much work. But I don't listen to that many of that kind of podcast, it tends to be more the more down and dirty, expert style podcast. But yeah, my wife listens to that kind of podcast and yeah, they're quite powerful stuff. But I can imagine a great fun to make a Yeah, they are. I mean, they're time consuming and they're stressful and they're, you know, you can get you can get down there's, there's definite troughs and making stuff like that, you know, when the first two thirds of our This is coming together this it's terrible. It's terrible. And then suddenly, there's just a point where you go, Wait a minute, that's what it is. That's the bit that links to there. That's the bit of music that makes that pop and then yeah, that's, that's
it's all worth it at that point. So with podcasting, the people that you work with, on the membership side of things, for example,
and I guess the people who are also using the altitude product, or kind of variety of reasons are there that people decide they want to do podcasts. I mean, I'm clear on my goals, but I'm at I imagine there must be a huge variety of goals people have for podcasting. Yeah, sure. I mean, for me, the biggest the most legitimate goal is really it's about putting this of the human touch behind a brand or a company. I mean, we're talking about marketing podcasts, I suppose. At its core, and you know, you're a solo printer or you are running a small business and the business has got a name but people
like our know, there's there's always perception that businesses are just out there to get your money. You know, they just sell a product, they just want your money. So building trust can be quite tricky. And that's what it comes down to. for me. podcasting is all about trust.
Because you get yourself out there, you get the staff behind your business out there. They're real people, they're real human beings, their thoughts, their dreams, their ethos, their, you know, everything. And it puts such a personality behind the business that helps grow trust helps to grow credibility. And really that's the that's the most powerful thing about podcasting for me. And that's why I think that's why most businesses think again into in the first place. I mean, we've talked as well about the benefits haven't worry about the some of the networking, like just the fact you get to talk to somebody for half an hour or an hour every week and learn from them and ask them all the questions that maybe you couldn't get their time doing other way. Yes. And
I know you had your own learning like, so you get to know these people build these relationships, but you also learn so much yourself and the others. There's loads of side benefits to podcasting, as well as it's a great medium. Yeah, certainly. It's been a great journey for me so far, and you would have to praise me away from it now. I really enjoy it too much. Good to hear so much.
The things I've noticed you doing quite well is, I mean, there are there are other people doing similar things to you in the world. But I don't know them.
You put a lot of I don't know if you put a lot of time and effort into it, but it appears that you have you certainly built quite a strong personal brand brand. And if you were to ask me to name five people who operate in your space, you're the only one really that I could name. That's partly because I know you, but I know you do speaking, you're quite often events and things like that. How conscious was the cultivation of that personal brand for you? I think it was definitely conscious in the early days. And I'm glad to hear that it that it's worked, at least in a sense, because I feel like I could do a lot better actually. And on.
I mean, I think the way that I tried to build it is more through the media side of things. So we are I mean, our blog is the most visible part of the business. That's where most people find us we get we get good traffic there. We've got a couple hundred
1000 people a month visiting our website, but on their actually, there's not much of a personal brand directly on our main website like I don't, me and Matthew are on the front page, but kind of small pictures. And I don't like I don't show about my name Matthews name we don't don't go too hard on the personal brand on there. But where we do is like you said speaking so I think a lot of the visibility I've our site or businesses gained over the years is thanks to me being on stages at an event that really speak to this audience that we're trying to. We're trying to build the talk to those people making relationships at those places, as getting on podcast is getting behind and on other shows like exactly like this is running our own podcast like pod craft, which speaks exactly to our audience as well. I've been on YouTube as well. I do a lot of video, too. So while I think I could do a better job on the website, I've definitely deliberately built a lot of media that puts myself out there but also Matthew to
I think that's importantly, I think it's not just me in this team. Matthew's definitely a personality were quite different. But I think we both play a big part in it. Yeah, I think your search profile is incredible. If you, I challenge listeners to go and do this just know type how to do anything. podcast and to Google. And your sights almost guaranteed to come up in the top three. It's really impressive. Yeah, yeah.
We're lucky to be there. But there has been a lot of planning around that too. Yeah. But there's when it when it comes to Google, there's there's definitely a bit of right place right time as well as putting the work into the keyword research the quality of the writing the
Yeah, it's doubling down iPhone as well. Actually, it's doubling down on the stuff that works. I think that's what a lot of people get wrong in terms of trying to get search visibility in that way. They just keep churning stuff out. And we spend at least as much time going back and reviewing stuff that's starting to work stuff that could be slightly better.
And re rejecting stuff that we've written two or three years ago. So I think that's a lot to do with it. But yeah, yeah, it's great. I mean, it's partly choosing the niche as well, isn't it? Like, it's always how to something podcast like you say. So podcast microphones, podcast mixers, podcast software, whereas I couldn't rank I wouldn't have a hoping anything and ranking for software or, you know, microphones or mixers. So it's finding your niche in that sense as well. I think I'd like to maybe roll back to and I am going to jump around quite a lot. I make no apologies for that. No, sorry. You were doing sort of done for you service effectively for a while and then you decided to product eyes. I imagine that was a bit of a slow transition. That would have been an immediate revelation, but the membership site side of things. I'm always curious to understand the journey and you have a very successful membership site. So
what how did you get from idea to actually
opening the doors for the first customer what was that journey? Like? And how long did it take? It was long and meandering to be honest. And I actually had said
so when nibble on chilis think that timeline, I think we launched the membership October, the year before last. So that would have been 17. Yeah, so October 2017.
And the first six months of it were actually a slog there, we didn't sell many memberships at all, redid it in April 18. So just about a year ago dead on No, admit it just Daniel about more self study. And that made it take off of actually it was that it was it was making it an annual membership that people could just get in commit their year to it and do a lot of it themselves. It was much lower cost because we put a bit more a bit less support in it. And we've actually we checked it again. So now we have monthly and Daniel and with a bit more support back into it. And just last month, so it's been it's changed a lot. But going back even before that
So October 17, go back maybe even a year, six months or a year before that I had said at that point, I'm never going to do a membership.
Not in our plans. I don't like it too many people are doing it. There's too many products out there that are like, they're trying to get you to subscribe on a monthly basis. I was thinking to myself, like I had, I kept having to, you know, Article audit your my monthly subscriptions. Like I was saying that for too many things, it would just put me off. I didn't have time to take part and more membership. So it just to me at that point, it seemed like the world was saturated with that stuff already. And there was no hope and anything of getting somebody to sign up for something like that. So
I'm trying to think of the trigger really, what made me change my mind? I think it was I think it was really around the fact that there was people asking for that was where we got to it was the fact that sort of in the summer of that of 17
We were talking to me way more people that was kind of a, it was an inflection point during 17, where our traffic started really growing, our visibility started really growing, I met a lot more people asking us for help with things. And to the extent that we couldn't really do it one to one with the team we had, we didn't really want to do one to one because it would just take up so much time doing that one to one work that doesn't necessarily grow the wider picture. So I think it was that point I revisited and decided that if we're actually going to help as many people as we want to as many people that want help from us, we need something more scalable, and the only thing I could think of was the membership site at the time. And I'm glad we did because we've we've figured out ways to make it unique. We figured out ways to make it worth the money that people put and we can we a month in month out. So yeah, it's it was definitely a hard decision to get to it. It was and we've we've definitely wasn't successful when we first launched it, but we've got there in the end.
And when you first open the doors, how much content did you actually have ready for people?
This is a technical nerdy question. But I think the reason that's important, I think is you kind of touched on a little bit like, Who wants another membership site? There are lots of membership sites. Yeah. But actually, there is an audience for you. There are people who want what you've got. It doesn't matter what you do, if you're a Facebook ads expert, or you focus on digital marketing, marketing for people who clean roads,
there is an audience for you. And there are people who want to engage you in lots of different ways. And one of those ways is memberships. So I'm curious to know how much is enough? I mean, I think I genuinely think now that you can launch a membership with very, very little like a lot of people join our membership just for the access to myself to Matthew to the other people we work with. So they actually they don't care about the content. They don't care about the courses, the resources, they're literally just there to be able to get on a live call with us every week and ask us questions to have us their support as
up. And I mean when you're paying whatever, memberships $35 a month these days, so what's that 2526 27
pounds a month, so they can get on an hour long call and get a decent bit of attention in there because we don't have a huge membership. We don't have hundreds of people turning up to these calls. So they get a decent reputation for what's that market like seven pounds a week. So yeah. When you think about it that way, it's pretty good.
But yeah, I mean, yeah, that's, that's how it's worked for us. Certainly they've, they've made it worthwhile that way. Thanks for answering that, because that that really has been a bit of a puzzle for me. So that's my indulgence. My indulgence is now over.
I mean, I'll say that the content is a big part of it for some people. So you could launch a membership with just just live calls, just some access, and start doing start creating content from that it's a classic way to do actually is to just set up, you know, seminars, lectures, whatever you want to call it, do one every week. So you've got an hour's worth of
content you're creating every single week, but you're running it live for the existing members, that's the value for them. But you put it in a bank and a library, which is then ongoing resources for new people. And that grows, you know, over three months, you've suddenly got 12 hours worth of content in there. So it's a good way to start it that way. I think. I think, to answer your question, we launched I believe, with
about five courses. But three of those courses were a three parter, really, on one larger course. So there was one launch course,
which we broke up into three parts. So that was the kind of planning of launch, there was the technical bits of launch, like creating the short and then there was the, there was the publishing of launch. So that was a three parter, really. And then we had one course on how to edit a podcast that was just how to use Audacity, essentially, which is one of the biggest things We're often asked. And then the third one, I believe, was an interview on and I got somebody else to do that for us. So somebody else was interested in creating a course for us around how to do good interviews. And that's all we will
So yeah, there wasn't a great deal in there.
And looking at the pivot from done for you to membership and product of the one of the things that I was really intrigued by was you get to spend a lot of time looking at your search profiles, looking at your product offerings, when you're focusing on a done for you service, the pressure to be spending time on that is intense. So, actually, finding the time carving of the time to work on product is really difficult for commercial reasons, because you need the money from the gun for your service. So how did you manage that pivot?
I planned that from the very start, actually. So when I talked about the fact that we went I went full time, early 15, late 14, I think it was and it was at that point that our I'd grown the Amazon income part time, so I hadn't done any production for two or three years before that started the site back in 2011. So between 11
2014 15 really it was just writing, it was creating content. It was growing an audience and growing that affiliate income. And it got up to two somewhere between two and 3000. I think a month at that, but no, it wasn't even that much. I think it was somewhere between 1500 and 2000 saw an income but not like a massive income. But I said, I'm going to I want to take the risk on this I want to go No, and I'm not going to I'm not going to do the technician work myself so I never did the production not from the very start. I took on a contractor right at the very start I found some the left close by to me that was willing to do on demand work, and we set a price per episode. And that meant that I could basically go get clients and know what my margin was going to be. I would charge say 50 pounds an episode and he would charge 25 pounds per episode I makes 25 per episode. I'm not counting all the other team and organization everything but you know what I basically
level I had that idea. And that's where we started. So I knew that I didn't want to get involved in that technician work for exactly that reason, Bob, but just because I knew I would never grow this, I never knew I knew I would never grow the scalable side of it, if I was concentrating on doing the technician work. So, again, that's a slightly tricky one because you have to find somebody that's willing to do that kind of on demand work, but I think there's plenty of folks out there these days that are willing up for doing that kind of freelance work. So as soon as possible. Yeah.
Okay, I went to look at Allah to a little bit because that is the mother of our product ization.
I've been watching the development of that, from the from from a distance, but to anybody listening Collins only an hour away from me and one of the guys that used to work for me now works with Colin on the other two. So I have a little bit of an interest. But what possessed you to take on a project like that?
That again, there's a slightly long story in that
Well, you know what the short answer is that we just kept getting asked we kept get is the most common question we're asked is, how do I edit a podcast? How can I avoid having to edit my podcast? I hate audacity, I hate processing stuff, I hate batteries, compression, EQ, adding music, all this stuff. It's it's one of the biggest pain points and podcasting, because so many people out there just want to have a chat like this. They just want to create content. They don't want to have to learn how to edit how to process. And so I was again trying to it was at the point actually where I knew that I wanted to get out of the production space. And but that was kind of my regular thing outside of the affiliate income. That was my again, my legitimate side. So I thought, right, what else can I build? And that was the question that kept coming up. So I thought can we build a product that helps people and it automates the processing, all that kind of stuff. So basically, that's where it came from. It was just we just kept getting asked by our customers.
The story of how it actually turned real, it's slightly different, but you can go into that if you want.
So yeah, it's up to yourself. No carry on. Well, I mean, so. So really. So I was lucky enough to get into a mentoring program actually back in 2015 called the Royals by run by the Royal Society of Edinburgh. And it's it's basically a year long commercialization program for academics. And I had been doing a PhD at the time. So this was something that was done alongside the the podcast host. And I got funding essentially. So I I got a little bit of funding to go through that year, and come up with some ideas and how to commercialize it. I got some mentoring from people, some actual, like really old school traditional people from up here, we actually have a few oil folk, just like they didn't have a clue what my industry was, but they were so good.
And kind of like getting their head around the business model, and translating their kind of old school knowledge into this new digital world. So that was really interesting, actually. And at the end of the day, I put together a plan of the type of product we could create and applied for funding from em smart. So Scottish Enterprise run this program called Smart SMRT is just an acronym for something or I can't remember, and you match funded. So they basically give you up to 100,000 pounds if you can match fund by a third. So they put 100,000 we put in 50. And it was that really that parody, it took a bit of the risk away. So I still had to spend a lot of money on doing this, like taking on developers and all the costs and everything but that gave me enough of a buffer that let's take the risk on it and start to build it. And the fact that I knew it was going to take about a year to get from design to make enough the first penny of it that helped with that a lot. So so that was kind of that was the the funding and actual creation side of it. Yeah. That joins the dots.
A few things that different people have said to me that seemed conflicting, but actually makes so much sense now.
So I do you ever built a software product before? No, not even slightly? Because I know what it takes. Having worked predominantly in the web agency side of things. But yeah, it's a massive undertaking. Yeah. I I've got so much wrong along the way. And
yeah, I learned so much. But it's it's been fun. It's been interesting. But I there's a lot of stuff I did not expect and a lot of back pedals and a lot of
U turns. So yeah, absolutely. I have far more respect for it software as our software project managers now.
Yeah, yeah, we had our first hundred users, which was brilliant. Back in November, I think it was December started December, I believe. But we got our second hundred. So 200 users just a few weeks ago, which was brilliant. So, yeah, we're definitely it's accelerating. It's growing. So, yeah,
really brilliant. And is that mean, you're probably not podcast trends better than I do. But does that sort of reflective of the growth of podcasts? And podcasting? Yeah, I think it's definitely a part of it. So podcasting itself is definitely growing. The stats are showing that there's a good set of stats just probably a few weeks ago actually shows that it's growing more in the last year than any year before. So that's great, but I think I think it's actually just a lot of the work we're doing around visibility as well as accelerating it, our websites doing better and better last few months and that's our that's our biggest source of leads is the content we've produced back in the day. So going back to that first blog post in 2011, that is actually what's powering the growth of ality as well. So
Yeah, but also Yeah, it's just it's just growing. We're getting out on we're sponsoring podcasts or sponsoring events, that kind of stuff. Just invest more money in it. No. As the product becomes more reliable, I trust it more. I'm putting more effort into external advertising though. Right? So where do you want to go next? Is it really just focusing on this membership and Allah tours products? Or have you got more crazy schemes in the pipeline? I,
I've had too many crazy schemes over the years that have derailed me many years ago. So right now I'm quite enjoying but not to focus just on the one business even though there are two kind of main products in there. So yeah, I'm quite satisfied with our two and the membership. And yeah, that's exactly where I want to go. I want to grow both of them. I think they're really complementary to I love having a product and a sir I really realized the membership technically as a product because people are buying it month by month, but I see it more as a service because we're giving the service of making podcaster
like telling them how to make podcast easy, but the product ality makes it easy for them. So I think they go really well together. So I think we can grow the two of them in tandem pretty well. So that's my plan is to bring them closer together to increase their liability of Allah to just make that totally rock solid. And so it works every single time and just becomes a great result for every single person. That's my aim for 2019. Really, thank you. And I think I do want to roll back to the other side of your business, which you mentioned right at the beginning, which has you have your own suite of podcasts. And you mentioned space exploration, and a couple of other things I can't possibly bodies were have a really hard to understand what that's for.
Sure, the space exploration one's just that really it was a fun project we started last year. And we're Matthew that works with me here as well into space as well. And I mean, he studied astrophysics that was my original degree. Not that I've done anything with that sense apart from just be vaguely interested in space. Home, but we were just
Say that to make a drama. Basically, it was a fictional Podcast, where Matthew and I are up in a spaceship, just zoom in about the solar system, but with a documentary style to it. So it's like we're, we're talking and so see I'm on the spaceship Matthews and the suit on the surface of Titan. And just talking through this effusive Richard Attenborough wondering about on Titan.
And it kind of brings together a few of our skills as an as our interest in space or our podcast production skills, but also our em, Matthews drama background. So Matthew actually has produced audio dramas for years now. So it's just it's a fun project that takes up way too much time. But we keep doing it anyway, because it's because it's fun to do. Well, it does sound a bit bonkers, but it does sound like great fun. But I'm guessing on a more serious note, is that something that you've monetized in some way?
No, we haven't. Well, I suppose that's one of those funny ones that we haven't monetized it directly, but
It was designed really as a bit of a portfolio piece. So I've sent it to maybe a client. So that that con virtual, for example, I talked about or a few other client shows we've worked on recently kind of high end high production ones, we send them a link to hostile worlds, they take a listen to two or three minutes of that short and they're like, Okay, I got it, you can make basically anything I want you to make. So it takes away all the technical questions, basically. And then it just comes down to, you know, the other stuff like, what, what are we going to actually make together? So yeah, it's really good in that sense. And I guess my last question, really, because I know you have to go shortly. But, and I haven't given you a warning of this. But if somebody was thinking on podcast, maybe that's something for me. What would be the one thing they should really think about first? It's always the uniqueness. So podcasting is growing and it's still the most open medium out there as I would argue it's still the easy
is medium to get discovered and grow an audience.
Because it's much less busy, much less high competition than video or blogging. But it is growing, the competition is getting harder. And it's it's about making sure your shows unique. There's just so many shows out there that are just the same as every other show that don't think about, you know, Nishan down your topic, there's something really interesting that really speaks to people. And so for me, it's always about it's about thinking about that problem that you're solving. Think about the audience that you're speaking to, what problem do they have? What big barrier Do they have that you're going to solve for them, and think about how you can be uniquely served to fix that for them. So not only are you going to teach them the topic, but you're going to bring your unique background to and often I find that actually that comes down to something that's maybe you don't realize is even relevant to it. So for example, my background I am a teacher from years back, I used to work at University. I'm also a note maker, I do a lot of bacon. I'm a parent. I've got a couple of little kids
So I can teach podcasting, but I can bring those perspectives to it. So our podcast pod craft, for example is it's almost made like a set of courses, seasons based, we go really deep pick a topic, we go really deep on that every lesson. Every every se I call them lessons are all in episodes. every lesson is linked to the next one. There's always a task to complete. There's homework to do at the end of that lesson that leads into the next one, within ask about that at the start of the next episode, ties back to it. So I, you know, I apply my teacher background really, really strongly to that podcast and asked what brings the uniqueness to pod craft. So I would say if you're thinking about starting a show, think about your topic, make it nice and specific, but also think about, you know, what is it about you that makes you different? What is it about you that makes you stand out, and how can you apply that to the show, and that is really what's going to bring people to the shore and make them stick around because they think this is different. This is something
You that really appeals to me. colonise fantastic advice now is a great place to stop. If people want to connect with you, how would you like them to do that? easiest places? Twitter, so always have to have a chat on Twitter any questions you have about podcasting, business, anything at all really happy to chat. You can find me at the podcast host on Twitter. Colin grey from the podcast host thanks so much for your time. Can't wait to see you again sometime. For no thank you very much. No problem. Thanks for having me, Bob.
Colin has a wealth of knowledge and his business journey started with selling services based on that. From there he product ties to his knowledge, his membership site and also provided the tools to produce podcasts easily using his new SAS product called altitude
Colin and his team offer a textbook example on how to build out your revenue streams and offer ever more value. It's never easy, but then nothing worth doing ever is. Before I go, just a quick reminder to subscribe to the show that is easy. And if you haven't already joined our Facebook group, you can find a link from the website to Bob gentle com Or just search gravity, digital marketing and Facebook and you'll find us easily. My name is Bob gentle.
Thanks again to call him for giving us his time this week. Thanks to you for listening to gravity and see you next week.